Author Topic: Wednesday 25th June: Hanny's Voorwerp  (Read 93261 times)

Hanny

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Re: Wednesday 25th June: Hanny's Voorwerp
« Reply #15 on: July 31, 2008, 01:13:50 pm »
Yep, two days actually.. and I've been on a few radiostations, I'll name them in the topic, phones are quiet now actually for a moment.. :-X :) anyway, thanks for the links Bill!

SergeNL

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Re: Wednesday 25th June: Hanny's Voorwerp
« Reply #16 on: August 02, 2008, 04:19:27 pm »
Lot’s of fun around the subject “Hanny’s Voorwerp”, also for Hanny herself.

It must be really funny to become famous worldwide (as long as it lasts) just for gazing at a blue spot, and sending an email, saying “Ey, what’s this?!”.. Grinn..
It must be like winning the lottery, by doing nothing at all really.. It’s even better, then no one envies you..
It’s a bit like “Pomme and Kelly”, two 15 year old girls, who play-backed Aretha Franklin’s “Respect” in their room, just for fun, putting the video on YouTube, causing hundreds of thousand youngsters worldwide shouting about how good it was.. (Very funny: go find it on Youtube)
It will raise a smile on thousands of faces, just because something like this can happen to you.. Even that makes it worthwhile.. It also shows again, that the wonders of the world are found in the details, and can be found anywhere.

The use of the word Voorwerp here, is very funny in Dutch.. For sky objects, the Dutch do normally use the word Object. So do the French, the Germans, the English etc. The word Object is very common, originating from Latin: Obiectum.

The word Voorwerp however, primarily refers to a rather small material object like a kitchen knife, or whatever being used. It is something lying around. One calls something a Voorwerp, if it doesn’t matter what it exactly is, or isn’t instantly recognised..

So “Hanny’s Voorwerp” in Dutch can mean something like: Hanny, carrying a strange blue spot under her arm everywhere, or having it lied in her garden. She can hammer nails into it, or juggle it around.
And since people normally do own lots of “voorwerpen”, here it also could mean: the voorwerp is the only object she has got.
So the image that rises from the words “Hanny’s Voorwerp”, is that of some girl, that has nothing but a strange object she carries around. So a sort of Alice in Wonderland.. Something you really got to see. This sounds much more interesting in Dutch than simply “Hanny’s object”.

The translation from object to voorwerp here, isn’t really wrong. The word ‘voorwerp’ is used extendedly, and may also refer to study objects, ideas that are spoken of, or the function of words in sentences. A sky object too may become a ‘voorwerp’, when a scientific study is made of it. But this also makes me grin.. As if Hanny would stare at her blue/green dot all day..

Also I saw the word “Zooites” here. Grinn.. In Dutch the word “Zooitje” may refer for instance to a very dirty kitchen, with everything lying around. If someone made a mess out of his place, we call the result a “zooitje”. It also can refer to a group of people like criminals, or junks, bums, or whatever. So it means unorganised and undesired, even if it is not that bad..
The plural of Zooitje is Zooitjes. So it is funny to use the word “Zooites” for the population of Galaxy Zoo, then the group is really unorganised, all staring at the chaos of the universe..
If there is any Zooitje, I want to be part of, then let it be those that really are interested in the adventures of science, life and cosmos..

And to me – born in Geleen, about 18 kilometers from where Hanny lives – it’s fun that our province at the borders of the Netherlands, gets known for something nice for a change. Life here is good, but normally we produce nothing but bad politicians, bad plans, air pollution etc.
So Hanny: You did it!! :D
You’re better news from Limburg than Wilders, Verhagen, Eurlings, of Maria van der Hoeven.

Let’s send Jean-Luc Picard to the dot!.. He may find out it is a giant baby life form that has lost it’s mother.. :)
Look at the Voorwerp: arms stretched foreward, head looking up, one red shoe.. Can't miss..

I joined the Zoo to look for Ma! :)

Alice

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Re: Wednesday 25th June: Hanny's Voorwerp
« Reply #17 on: August 02, 2008, 09:35:01 pm »
I love that post! Welcome to the Zoo SergeNL! :D :D :D ;D ;D ;D

pavre

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Re: Wednesday 25th June: Hanny's Voorwerp
« Reply #18 on: August 02, 2008, 11:11:09 pm »
SergeNL.. wel said ;D
Hanny.. Chapeau! BIG thumbs up!!!! :D
ya placed ur selfs a nice milestone there ;)
your "voorwerp" looks indeed weird.. my sugestion..
gas remainders from an older supernova..the cloud gets lighten from the galaxy that is just above it..
(sorry if I am unknowen repeating someone others interpretation of this phenomenon)
BTW. I live in Kerkrade *NL*  ;)
greetz!!
Space, there is no frontier. 
These are the outcomes of my never ending mission:
to explore strange new worlds, to seek out new stars and new nebulas. 
To boldly look where no man has looked before.

Infinity

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Re: Wednesday 25th June: Hanny's Voorwerp
« Reply #19 on: August 03, 2008, 12:30:25 am »
Welcome to the zoo pavre, the great thing about finds like the voorwerp is the interest that it generates in science. Enjoy your stay. :)

SergeNL

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Re: Wednesday 25th June: Hanny's Voorwerp
« Reply #20 on: August 03, 2008, 01:52:31 am »
I love that post! Welcome to the Zoo SergeNL! :D :D :D ;D ;D ;D

Thanks Alice!  ;D

I hope to find out how to properly bark or tweet in this Zoo..

Looks like a little invasion from the Dutch province of Limburg.. The new member Pavre (Hi Pavre!) is from the city of Kerkrade, let's say 10 Km from Hanny. It is a nice area with hills and local culture and their own language. But it is bad for astronomy due to air- and light pollution in the south. So we have to move on to sites like these to get the taste of it again..


Amateur Astronomy, is it science or romanticism, a friend once asked? I said romanticism. But can it be both? Isn't it very human to be curious, and to be exited about the process of discovery and finding out what is the truth? I think love and truth combine very well..

Alice

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Re: Wednesday 25th June: Hanny's Voorwerp
« Reply #21 on: August 03, 2008, 07:23:25 am »
There are amateur astronomers for whom it is almost entirely science, I am sure. For me, I don't even know - it just instinctively seems logical and right to be interested in it!

Welcome to the Zoo, Dutch crowd! ;D

SergeNL

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Re: Wednesday 25th June: Hanny's Voorwerp
« Reply #22 on: August 03, 2008, 11:48:43 am »
Welcome to the Zoo, Dutch crowd! ;D
Did you know, we Dutch know everything better? It’s an amazing fact, of course discovered in Holland. The less we look at other points of view, the more we are united in eternal truth.. 2-3 lines on a subject is usually enough to know all about it. The less we read, the more we avoid unnecessary questions about insignificant details. And we love to talk about it, and smile when we do, then we know that nothing could interest you more, than listening to us..
 
So this is why the Belgium’s separated from us in 1830, the Germans abandoned us in 1945, and every expression in English or French containing the word ‘Dutch’, ever since they know us, is not one, you’d like to teach your children.. My guess is, Napoleon lost the battle of Waterloo because of listening too much to Dutch negotiators, undermining his main mental features..

So being a mod, feel free to delete us all at once when the time is ripe, without hesitation or remorse..
The good news: the province of Limburg has a history of oppression or neglect by the Dutch, so the Limburgian ‘Zooitje’ here may be a bit more bearable, not being famous for knowing too much.. :D

Infinity

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Re: Wednesday 25th June: Hanny's Voorwerp
« Reply #23 on: August 03, 2008, 12:02:14 pm »
Nice to have you here Serge, even if your post made more than 3 lines :P ;D

And we like our Dutch friends very much here in the zoo. So look forward to more entertaining posts from you.

Eric F Diaz

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Re: Wednesday 25th June: Hanny's Voorwerp
« Reply #24 on: August 03, 2008, 01:21:01 pm »
Hi SergeNL and welcome to the Zoo. I must say that I love your sense of humor and whimsical nature. It's a real pleasure to have you as part of the team. ;)
« Last Edit: August 03, 2008, 01:44:19 pm by Eric F Diaz »

Half65

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Re: Wednesday 25th June: Hanny's Voorwerp
« Reply #25 on: August 03, 2008, 02:08:49 pm »
Welcome to the zoo SergeNL.

SergeNL

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Re: Wednesday 25th June: Hanny's Voorwerp
« Reply #26 on: August 03, 2008, 02:50:17 pm »
There are amateur astronomers for whom it is almost entirely science, I am sure. For me, I don't even know - it just instinctively seems logical and right to be interested in it!

There is no point in philosophy, that after ‘proper’ analyses leaves a beautiful thing scattered to pieces all over the ground, spoiling the very thing it was investigating. The same counts for silly questions, appearing to be intellectually interesting, but in fact pointing at something dull or irrelevant..

So it can be better to not exactly know why you do something, as long as you believe in what you do. Perhaps the Zen-approach applies most here: just do what you do, and don’t wander off. I think dedication and concern does it here. And perhaps especially amateur astronomists like to say: I don’t care, back off, I just love what I do! They will not accept any philosophy or literature about it, unless it points out, why it is great to do it.. :D  They may oppose to anything else, or just leave it. I can’t blame them.. The only thing they may want, is sharing what they found.. That seems to be the right attitude.

I am a technician, so I like to separate real scientific thinking and methods from anything else. But I can’t deny there is lot’s of beauty and love in technique and science, and there is some driving force that make technicians and scientists do what they do. A long time ago I started repairing old tube radio’s. And I collected many. And what you can see, is the development of the technique in time. You can see how great ideas are piled up upon older great ideas. You can almost feel the euphoria that everyone must have felt, that found out something new. The history of science and technique is the history of human inventiveness. And that paid off. And that made people believe in it, and contribute to it, just because they feel like it..

Science is religion. (apart from the many banal aspects that come with it) It cannot be divided from what people really believe in.  But it is a very practical and modest religion, not reaching beyond what humans really can know or can believe, like the official religions do. Of course science does not byte religion at all (some believers in ‘God’ keep on believing it does), but it has a force of it’s own. It surely is a way of true belief. I think faith is behind every good scientific project. I don’t think a scientist will continue a project very long, if he looses faith in it. He will stop and think twice about what to do next?

Strong part of the religion ‘Science’ is the central position of doubt. It even develops complete systems about doubt, even rejecting all statements that cannot be doubted (Popper).
True science is about being modest, truthful, being conscious and precise, understanding what you know, and where you got what you think you know. So science asks to really do, what many religions ask you to do, instead of always emphasising how important it is to ‘believe’ in their theories, like religions do. (b.t.w. I am Catholic)
Being your simple self seems to be the best starting point for almost everything. Even at Law School here, the most famous professor kept saying: don’t mind the rules: Start with what you think of it yourself, and then search for the rules that support your view. Another one kept saying: a critical student is one, that understands the basis of his/her knowledge..

Great example in the movie ‘Contact’ (1997), where the atheist woman obviously is the one with true faith, while all the ‘religious’ ones are faking, misleading and manipulating. I may be a convinced Christian, but there is no way around ‘atheist belief’ or ‘atheist methods’, as they can be one of the best parts of human faith.

So is it science or romanticism, what amateur astronomists do? Might be a silly question. It can be both, and it can be more than that. Even the ones, for whom it is merely technique and science, believe it is right what they do, and feel they are naturally interested in truth about the world. Nothing wrong with feelings of romanticism, love or beauty coming with that.. It can be a bit of all. Who cares?
So if you say it "instinctively seems logical and right to be interested", thats perfect for me..

I am a computer technician now, and can experience the same beauty in very technical computer forums. Some people can solve a very complex problem and be very clear in only five words, getting others out of big trouble. That’s the kind of church I like to go to.. They care, they are helpful, they are truthful, they are skilful, and they create a good community where everyone gets better. They never talk about faith, but they just do it..

Sorry for so much off-topic chat..
Greeting from the dullhills of Limburg, the Shire of the Netherlands..
Serge.

SergeNL

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Re: Wednesday 25th June: Hanny's Voorwerp
« Reply #27 on: August 03, 2008, 10:06:17 pm »
Nice to have you here Serge, even if your post made more than 3 lines :P ;D

Well.. some of us (cough..) have to quack a whole page, before they do remember what it actually was, they wanted to say..
That might be the reason, why some of us in their social life end up on sites like these..

Next station would be a chat with an alien life form, 20 lightyears away, giving you at least 40 years of hope for response, before that respose really comes, saying: "Could you summarise it a bit, please?".

Thanks for the warm welcome..  :)
@ Eric and Half65: also thanks! Hope you are all doing well..

Composing the amat-astro-blues at the moment:

After years of reading about stars in bed, I finally bought a small telescope. It was 40 dollars/euro's and 10 inches away, so I couldn't resist. 60 millimeter lens, and enlarging up to 250x. Exiting!
That was the perfect moment to find out, that plenty of stars that had been there 30 years ago, and had been freely twinkling there for thousands of millennia, now had completely vanished. Probably went off to get polished (by God), or something.
Also wondering how naked an eye must be exactly, to be able to see what was promised to see with that in the books.. How much does one have to peel off of his eyes to get them naked enough? Until they feel ashamed of themselves?

Anyway.. that was the pollution.. It is a bit of a paradox how the same development of technique that delivers such good pictures of sky objects, also prevents us from looking at the sky ourselves. It's a bit like being surrounded by 3 kubic meters of holiday pictures of your wife, but not being able to look over the pile to actually see her.. Is that better? In some (many?)cases yes, but still..

Also found out, that Messier-objects mainly do well on photo's because of the possible long lightening times, but can hardly be seen through a telescope.
Also found out that objects run off west, if you peep at them with large enlargements. Very human. I know.. you need a slow turning device, that eliminates the movement of the earth..
And there are stability issues and temperature issues..

But in spite of all this, it is still fun to do. But in the Netherlands you'd have to go north to Friesland. (where also the blondes are grown, for who has a special interest in these..) Elswhere there is lot of pollution. A light pollution chart also pointed at Friesland as the best spot. I've been there once, seeing a beautiful sky, including the Milky Way.

Spoke to someone from Tokyo.. had never seen a star. Not to mention China.. They had to switch off the half of everything for two weeks, before the sky began to look something like blue again..

Thanks for reading.. going to sort some galaxies, as if they were potatoes. Probably the closest we'll ever come to 'playing God'...  ;D


pavre

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Re: Wednesday 25th June: Hanny's Voorwerp
« Reply #28 on: August 04, 2008, 10:07:34 am »
Welcome to the zoo pavre, the great thing about finds like the voorwerp is the interest that it generates in science. Enjoy your stay. :)
thx Infinity; of course i will injoy my stay here.. so manny people with the same interest is always nice ;)
Space, there is no frontier. 
These are the outcomes of my never ending mission:
to explore strange new worlds, to seek out new stars and new nebulas. 
To boldly look where no man has looked before.

pavre

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Re: Wednesday 25th June: Hanny's Voorwerp
« Reply #29 on: August 04, 2008, 10:46:23 am »
Looks like a little invasion from the Dutch province of Limburg.. The new member Pavre (Hi Pavre!) is from the city of Kerkrade, let's say 10 Km from Hanny. It is a nice area with hills and local culture and their own language. But it is bad for astronomy due to air- and light pollution in the south. So we have to move on to sites like these to get the taste of it again..

Hi Serge.. thx for the explanation, yes and ur so right about the air- and light pollution.
Some "warm" nights ago, when i was in my garden i mentioned it even to my wife that there are much less stars to see, then some 30 years ago in our area.
I can remember i was in Lanaken (belguim) late 1970's; I was with my parents on a camping there, that i saw the best stary night i ever can remember..
The sky was so cleare in that time, that thousants of stars and even the "gegenschein" or milkyway? was good to see.. its a pitty its so fadet here
now...
PS i know my englisch s*cks, I hope you all can understand what i mean :)
regards!
Space, there is no frontier. 
These are the outcomes of my never ending mission:
to explore strange new worlds, to seek out new stars and new nebulas. 
To boldly look where no man has looked before.