Author Topic: Peas Project  (Read 24650 times)

Rick Nowell

Re: Peas Project
« Reply #525 on: October 08, 2008, 02:49:51 pm »
Can someone please explain what 2-33 Msun per year means and what an Edington Accretion Rate is. Is this
different from a figure of how many solar masses per year an object produces? Thanks.

Infinity

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 9800
    • View Profile
Re: Peas Project
« Reply #526 on: October 08, 2008, 03:29:30 pm »
There is some info here that may help with the Eddington Rate

laihro

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 389
    • View Profile
    • Fakten fragen
Re: Peas Project
« Reply #527 on: October 08, 2008, 06:48:38 pm »
I removed the first graph from the previous page and am putting this new one up so people don't
have to log on to see it
.

Hi Rick - Can I make people aware that images posted as attachments using "additional options" can be enlarged simply by single clicking the image.
(Certainly in Firefox anyway !).

This generates the same image as in your posting.

Fermats Brother

Hi FB,

as Rick already stated only registered users can see attachments. Rick reposted the image to make it visible to guest users. And he is using is own web space for this honorable plan. Nice  :)

laihro
IMHO. And I don't have a clue ...

ccardamone

  • Astronomers
  • Jr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 53
    • View Profile
Re: Peas Project
« Reply #528 on: October 09, 2008, 02:18:00 am »
Can someone please explain what 2-33 Msun per year means and what an Edington Accretion Rate is. Is this
different from a figure of how many solar masses per year an object produces? Thanks.


Hi,
   2 Msun / year - means that we measure a star formation rate that's equivalent to forming 2 new solar mass stars each year.  I measured a range of star formation rates in the peas, from several Msun per year to 10s of Msun per year.  This means that the small galaxies hosting the peas form as many stars as the entire millky way in 1 year.  And many of the Peas form 10 times as many stars as the milky way.


ccardamone

  • Astronomers
  • Jr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 53
    • View Profile
Re: Peas Project
« Reply #529 on: October 09, 2008, 02:22:17 am »
done  :)

Quite many of the objects were not even green...


yeah - many of them appear 'blue' in the 3 color images.  I think its because the OIII line in the Rband is joined by an OII line in the g band. eg.



This surprised me too.

FermatsBrother

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2049
  • It's in the margin !
    • View Profile
Re: Peas Project
« Reply #530 on: October 09, 2008, 05:17:54 am »
   2 Msun / year - means that we measure a star formation rate that's equivalent to forming 2 new solar mass stars each year.  ....

Hi ccardamone - I think 2 Msun = 2 Mega suns = 2,000,000 sun !!

FB
A spectrum, many spectra. A Supernova, many supernovae. A datum, many data. A nebula, many nebulae. SATELLITE.
 Fermats Brother

FermatsBrother

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2049
  • It's in the margin !
    • View Profile
Re: Peas Project
« Reply #531 on: October 09, 2008, 08:03:25 am »
done  :)

Quite many of the objects were not even green...


yeah - many of them appear 'blue' in the 3 color images.  I think its because the OIII line in the Rband is joined by an OII line in the g band. eg.
[images cut]

This surprised me too.

 
Hi ccardamone & sepos - It's for a variety of reasons, often related to contribution from the level of the the "background" radiation from the object.
In this case the energy in the g band (blue+green 4000 to 5500A) [as blue on your screen] as measured by the "area under the curve" is quite a large proportion of the total area.
The OII contribution at 4800A is quite small (as measured by the area under the curve).

For a "real pea" the colour changes from green towards red, because of z shift.

This has been discussed much earlier in the various pea threads.

I think that one of the definitions of the original pea hunters is that the OIII must be > OII.

FB
« Last Edit: October 09, 2008, 08:34:05 am by FermatsBrother »
A spectrum, many spectra. A Supernova, many supernovae. A datum, many data. A nebula, many nebulae. SATELLITE.
 Fermats Brother

ccardamone

  • Astronomers
  • Jr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 53
    • View Profile
Re: Peas Project
« Reply #532 on: October 09, 2008, 01:37:48 pm »
   2 Msun / year - means that we measure a star formation rate that's equivalent to forming 2 new solar mass stars each year.  ....

Hi ccardamone - I think 2 Msun = 2 Mega suns = 2,000,000 sun !!

FB


I'm sorry for any confusion. When I listed the star formation rates I meant 2 \times the mass of the sun by the notation 2 Msun.  This comes from how we typically type the "mass of the sun" in latex M\sun, which puts a small sun symbol after the M.   (Latex is simple a way to type up a paper which most astronomers use, http://ucpjournals.uchicago.edu/AAS/AASTeX/).

    I can completely see how this is confusing because often an "M" means mega meaning 10^6 of something.  But here I was only using M to represent 'mass'  as in 1 solar mass.  I hope this clears things up!

Rick Nowell

Re: Peas Project
« Reply #533 on: October 09, 2008, 02:36:07 pm »
...When I listed the star formation rates I meant 2 \times the mass of the sun by the notation 2 Msun...

Thankyou for explaining that. I thought it might be written as, say, 2 solar masses per year, but obviously
there is a convention that I am not familiar with- I don't get to use Latex.

hwilts

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1180
    • View Profile
Re: Peas Project
« Reply #534 on: October 13, 2008, 09:26:13 pm »
Hi there, I don't know if this galaxy can be considered a pea. I can't find spectral data, but it is green.



http://cas.sdss.org/astro/en/tools/explore/obj.asp?id=587741390492336564

Henk

Galaxy Hunters Inc

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 181
  • Another day. another Galaxy.
    • View Profile
Re: Peas Project
« Reply #535 on: October 17, 2008, 06:47:51 am »



Is it a pea?     

http://cas.sdss.org/astro/en/tools/explore/obj.asp?id=587726102024159308


Hi 1000GGG , dthomas02 and hwilts
To find out if its a pea
Click on your link and it takes you to SDSS or SkyServer Object Explorer. which is where all the pictures for Galaxy Zoo are drawn from, but here, you have much more information.
Now Directly under the picture you will see this sentence

No scienceprimary SpecObj linked to this PhotoObj  
 (Click on "All Spectra" link if you think this object has a spectrum)

So in the left hand blue column you will see the heading "SpecObj"and under that "all spectra". Click on this.
This will take you to another page. Which;... for the picture you posted there is no information. So, in the absence of any information, we have to say we don't know if its a pea or not.
However if there was a chart it would have to have an elevated OIII line.

Also Guys
This thread is just for the science project that the ZooKeepers and astronomers are doing. It is mainly to keep the rest of us informed on how the project is going. It is much better to post those peas over in Hannys thread "give peas a chance" where any type or colour is welcome. Also there are heaps of posts about what peas are. Click back a few pages and you will find lots of info.
Good luck with the pea hunting
GHI
« Last Edit: October 17, 2008, 06:52:00 am by Galaxy Hunters Inc »

Alice

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 26264
  • Mergers can make anything - even penguins . . .
    • View Profile
    • Alice in Galaxyland
Re: Peas Project
« Reply #536 on: October 20, 2008, 04:27:01 pm »
1000GGG's post moved to "Give peas a chance" on request. :)
   "Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding" - Albert Einstein

ccardamone

  • Astronomers
  • Jr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 53
    • View Profile
Re: Peas Project
« Reply #537 on: November 05, 2008, 01:35:32 am »
done  :)

Quite many of the objects were not even green...


Hi Everyone,
  Thanks so much for your help.  Looking at what was rated 'Pea' vs. 'not Pea' I was able to refine our 'Pea' definition toward more 'green' objects.  DR7 was just released (Sloan has given us new spectra), so I have a 'finalized' sample of Peas.  I'm working on finishing the analysis (rerunning gandalf on them all) and I'll post results here soon.  While I'm working on that, could you veterans post some 'Pea - history'.  I'm writing the paper, and I wanted to put in a few sentences about the history of the Peas. How did this all get started?

thanks for your help!
Carie

Hanny

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 15566
  • "Voorwerp kid"
    • View Profile
    • www.hannysvoorwerp.com
Re: Peas Project
« Reply #538 on: November 05, 2008, 10:03:01 am »
done  :)

Quite many of the objects were not even green...


Hi Everyone,
  Thanks so much for your help.  Looking at what was rated 'Pea' vs. 'not Pea' I was able to refine our 'Pea' definition toward more 'green' objects.  DR7 was just released (Sloan has given us new spectra), so I have a 'finalized' sample of Peas.  I'm working on finishing the analysis (rerunning gandalf on them all) and I'll post results here soon.  While I'm working on that, could you veterans post some 'Pea - history'.  I'm writing the paper, and I wanted to put in a few sentences about the history of the Peas. How did this all get started?

thanks for your help!
Carie


Hi Carie. I found the first pea and posted it as a joke on the forum, with the topic title: "Give peas a chance" (obviously after Lennon's song "Give peace a chance"). Then others started posting them too and we talked (joked) about me making soup of them for a while. Later on people started collecting other fruits (ie not the green ones) and I think you know the rest. Hope that helps. :)

Rick Nowell

Re: Peas Project
« Reply #539 on: November 05, 2008, 02:06:31 pm »
A definitive history of Peas should start at the beginning. Almost inevitably, Hanny concocted the Peas thread,
little knowing that one day her humourous point-of-departure would lead to a paper on a group of galaxies
that became identified because they appeared green. But really, Galaxy Zoo and its forum is the parent of
this study; only through so many people looking at so many galaxies and then being able to communicate
their findings has this exciting set of discoveries been produced. Having intelligent and communicative young
astronomers on hand to grasp what opportunities have arisen was always going to produce new science,
which is presumably what this is all about...

Indeed, one of the first peas, a QSO, became noticeable because of its very large redshift z=4.2. But, distance
was not to become what was interesting about Peas. Doubly-ionised oxygen or OIII is the substance that has
set these objects apart, and its proliferation in some of these compact galaxies.

For my own part, I remember this thread being the start of the journey for me.
Posted by Nightwatch,   Dec. 10.   What Is This Green Colored Thingy?
http://www.galaxyzooforum.org/index.php?topic=8926

In this, the OIII part of the spectrum is identified and Zookeeper Kevin gets involved. Fluffy Porcupine correctly
identified what 'OIII' is and where it should be. I had googled 'green star' and come up with a ref that suggests
ionised oxyen is green. For what ever reason, I decided to list as many of these green OIII objects as I could
find, and so built a list of what was initially around 50 objects. Most seemed to be around redshift 0.2 or 3,
and the fact that they were heavy in the r-band (as in RGB) accounted for their greeness. From there, others
started building lists, most notably Starry Night, who became interested in any objects that had this vast OIII
spike- whatever colour. Indeed, he found some very odd-coloured objects including 'grapes'- purple in hue,
through data-mining the entire forum! This was still all 'by hand' though...

It was Starry who initially suggested using coding to get suitable OIII objects. Using SQL to search the SDSS
database is not something that would have occured to me and no-one else seems to have latched on to
that as a method of finding Peas- perhaps then it was still not been taken seriously. By mid-February, lots
of different coloured Peas had been found. Lists were abundant, including many examples from Galaxy
Hunters Inc. Fermat's Brother then became involved and introduced a more rigorous scientific examination
of the spectra and its meanings. Reply #817 seems to encapsulate this more detailed spectral analysis.

By March, 92 greens had been found, but no-one had yet automated the search. Elisabeth from Belgium
was beginning her handiwork and then, FB came up with a SQL program! Amazing! (Reply #885). Then came
along laihro and his positive emitters list of 7000-odd objects. The process was no longer so open-ended;
there seemed to be a reasonably distinct number of these things and by the right programming and knowing
which parametres to use we could isolate them.

Laihro's lists have proved invaluable in sorting the current number of 200+ green ones. Together with
Waveney's merger program, people were able to classify this big list of thousands and condense it into this
grouping Carrie is now writing a paper about. Awesome really; the power of citizen science.