Author Topic: We're in a book! "Reinventing Discovery" by Michael Nielsen  (Read 14348 times)

Alice

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We're in a book! "Reinventing Discovery" by Michael Nielsen
« on: October 12, 2011, 02:57:21 pm »
Michael Nielsen has written a book about networked science - in other words, using the Internet and crowdsourcing - and there's a whole chapter largely about Galaxy Zoo. I can't wait to read this ;D ;D ;D
« Last Edit: October 12, 2011, 03:25:09 pm by Alice »

Alice

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Re: We're in a book! "Reinventing Discovery" by Michael Nielsen
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2011, 04:22:11 pm »
Ooooh - I've had an update from Michael Nielsen. There's a contents page and a PDF of the first chapter. They're fascinating. Read on to find out why Galaxy Zoo could be thought of as ultimately "conservative". This is a bit of a blow, but I don't think he means it as saying we're not good enough, just that it's done with the aim of producing scientific papers - which I think we're all happy with! - and there could be other ways of sharing information, with other motives, but something is making scientists reluctant to contribute (through no fault of their own). I'm not going to say what this is because I think this is quite enough in the way of spoilers - I hope it whets your appetite . . .
« Last Edit: October 13, 2011, 02:11:57 am by Alice »

Mikyle

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Re: We're in a book! "Reinventing Discovery" by Michael Nielsen
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2011, 12:20:45 am »
Well, I personally don't care what I'm doing here, as long as I'm helping the scientific community and having fun!

Alice

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Re: We're in a book! "Reinventing Discovery" by Michael Nielsen
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2011, 01:16:25 am »
 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

EigenState

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Re: We're in a book! "Reinventing Discovery" by Michael Nielsen
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2011, 02:02:25 am »
Greetings,

Ooooh - I've had an update from Michael Nielsen. There's a [url-http://press.princeton.edu/titles/9517.html]contents page[/url] and a PDF of the first chapter. They're fascinating. Read on to find out why Galaxy Zoo could be thought of as ultimately "conservative". This is a bit of a blow, but I don't think he means it as saying we're not good enough, just that it's done with the aim of producing scientific papers - which I think we're all happy with! - and there could be other ways of sharing information, with other motives, but something is making scientists reluctant to contribute (through no fault of their own). I'm not going to say what this is because I think this is quite enough in the way of spoilers - I hope it whets your appetite . . .

I get an Error 404 Object not found with the link to the PDF file of Chapter 1.

Best regards,
ES


Alice

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Re: We're in a book! "Reinventing Discovery" by Michael Nielsen
« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2011, 02:04:18 am »
Really? Grrrr . . . This doesn't work? http://press.princeton.edu/chapters/s9517.pdf

I now realise I'd put a url- instead of a url= in those brackets - now corrected - here is the contents page again, and perhaps getting to the first chapter from there will be possible (yes, I know there's no logical reason for that, but computers aren't logical :D).


Alice

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Re: We're in a book! "Reinventing Discovery" by Michael Nielsen
« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2011, 02:12:23 am »
I've tidied up that post a bit. Something obviously went weird with the url tags. Good job you let me know! ;D

EigenState

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Re: We're in a book! "Reinventing Discovery" by Michael Nielsen
« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2011, 02:56:35 am »
Greetings,

I have now digested Chapter 1 and I urge all of the membership to read it.  I might have to read the entire book now.   ::)

That said, I must add that I do not concur with all of the conclusions drawn by the author.  In particular, as of yet I fail to see that the sharing of data obtained necessarily impacts the efficiency with which that data is actually obtained.

Best regards,
ES

graham d

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Re: We're in a book! "Reinventing Discovery" by Michael Nielsen
« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2011, 12:00:40 pm »
Perhaps it worked then but it doesn't work now.

Maybe you could provide a short review of that chapter.

I think there are several valid reasons why scientists don't contribute. Firstly, 90% of all scientists who have ever lived are alive now. It's not a sweeping generalisation to forgive the remainder.
Secondly, science has become extremely specialised and many may feel out of their depth even within a specialist discipline. Organising time to do so isn't easy during an active carreer. I'm surprised though that the majority of the thousands of scientists I knew and for those who are now surviving into retirement rarely play active roles.

EigenState

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Re: We're in a book! "Reinventing Discovery" by Michael Nielsen
« Reply #10 on: October 15, 2011, 01:44:02 pm »
Greetings,

I think there are several valid reasons why scientists don't contribute. Firstly, 90% of all scientists who have ever lived are alive now. It's not a sweeping generalisation to forgive the remainder.
Secondly, science has become extremely specialised and many may feel out of their depth even within a specialist discipline. Organising time to do so isn't easy during an active carreer. I'm surprised though that the majority of the thousands of scientists I knew and for those who are now surviving into retirement rarely play active roles.

There are basically two points under discussion.  One is the sharing of data prior to formal publication within the peer reviewed literature.  Another is public, or quasi-public contributions to the research itself.

Sharing of data prior to formal publication has cultural problems.  As the system now stands, publications and patents are the principal "products" of research efforts.  Those "products" determine career advancement and professional recognition.  For sharing of data prior to publication or patent to become widespread and accepted within the research community, there would need to be substantive alterations to the existing culture.  Funding agencies, academic institutions, non-profit research institutions such as the National Laboratories here in the United States, and the researchers themselves would all have to formally accept that making data available to the public prior to publication is the desired mode of operation.  There is also the problem of how the system then assigns credit to the researchers, institutions, and funding sources.  The astronomy community has been quite successful in accomplishing such a mode of operation as is exemplified by arXiv.org.  The biology community has been successful with the databases for the human genome.  Similar approaches have obviously not been incorporated into other segments of the scientific community.

This forum itself offers conflicting examples of how different members of the scientific community interact with the public.  There is no question that the Zookeepers and NGC3314 have been exceedingly gracious with acknowledging the contributions of the membership.  The discussions regarding Mitch's Mystery Star were rather different.

Any active researcher is also going to ask how do I find the time to participate in public discussions and collaborations.  They are also likely to ask if the signal to noise ratio is sufficient to warrant their contributions.  In addition, not all research fits into the mold of Galaxy Zoo, or the BOINC projects in which distributed computational resources are in need.

Best regards,
ES

Alice

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Re: We're in a book! "Reinventing Discovery" by Michael Nielsen
« Reply #11 on: October 15, 2011, 01:50:29 pm »
If you PM me an e-mail address, Graham, I would be happy to send you the PDF of the chapter as a file.

Alice

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Re: We're in a book! "Reinventing Discovery" by Michael Nielsen
« Reply #12 on: October 15, 2011, 02:27:44 pm »
Update: thanks Graham. Sorry - I can't after all, because it's not you, it's the site itself! Hopefully it will be back soon. Anyone else able to get it? If not, let's give it till later.

waveney

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Re: We're in a book! "Reinventing Discovery" by Michael Nielsen
« Reply #13 on: October 15, 2011, 02:34:02 pm »
I have just got it (again).
Join the Irregular Classifiers
We all help at the cutting edge of ignorance.

Alice

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Re: We're in a book! "Reinventing Discovery" by Michael Nielsen
« Reply #14 on: October 15, 2011, 02:52:23 pm »
Many thanks Richard! Graham, I have forwarded it on to you now. ;D