Author Topic: A thread to talk about Talk  (Read 42975 times)

JeanTate

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A thread to talk about Talk
« on: May 22, 2012, 07:42:07 am »
Geoff suggested that we have "a separate thread to talk about "Talk", what's wrong with it and can it be fixed".

There's been some discussion of "Talk" in the thread jules started: Zooniverse Project Workshop 2012 - notes; specifically, several zooites have expressed, um, dissatisfaction with the way the Talk forum worked, at Planet Hunters, and some, er, dismay at the thought that Talk might be extended and made the sole forum for all zooinverse projects. Jules pointed out, rightly no doubt, that it "... was admitted that Talk needs a lot of work - which it is about to get ..."

So, let's talk more about Talk!  ;D

JeanTate

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Re: A thread to talk about Talk
« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2012, 07:47:44 am »
Here's what was said, over in that other thread:



Did they mention how they were going to fix the "Talk" forum?

I don't - I hope! - normally get this fussed, but I think the Talk forum was one of the worst things the Zooinverse has ever done.

Does anyone reading this know of anyone who felt Talk is cool?
It was admitted that Talk needs a lot of work - which it is about to get - but it's here to stay for all new projects. There are some things about it that I like! :o :o It is easy to leave comments and once you get used to it fairly easy to find stuff again - but it's far from perfect. However, 40% of Planet Hunters use Talk compared to a tiny few percent of Galaxy Zoo / Moon Zoo etc users. It isn't working for all projects though - and the team acknowledged this.

What's the percentage of one post threads ('people saying : ooh look at this' without any follow-up or response whatsoever)?
I once took a quick look and I got to (at least) 60% of 'one post threads'. It's just very easy to post a comment. It's a whole different thing to have a real conversation on 'Talk'
(but that is just me I suppose  ;))
A year ago I was ribbed for loathing Talk. This has not changed - but then I haven't had much time to try it again :D :D
Sounds like you had a great time Jules and thanks for the report.

Did they mention how they were going to fix the "Talk" forum?
I don't - I hope! - normally get this fussed, but I think the Talk forum was one of the worst things the Zooinverse has ever done.

Does anyone reading this know of anyone who felt Talk is cool?
.........Got to agree with you Jean not one of the better things the Zooinverse has done.



It was admitted that Talk needs a lot of work - which it is about to get - but it's here to stay for all new projects. There are some things about it that I like! :o :o It is easy to leave comments and once you get used to it fairly easy to find stuff again - but it's far from perfect. However, 40% of Planet Hunters use Talk compared to a tiny few percent of Galaxy Zoo / Moon Zoo etc users. It isn't working for all projects though - and the team acknowledged this.
  :( Oh dear I was afraid of this.
Look on the bright side - it can only get better!
(My glass is always half full!!) ;D
Really enjoyed reading the notes, Jules - It's nice to get some feedback and ideas from the different projects - thanks
(I must admit that Talk on Planet Hunters is really aggravating sometimes - sometimes only one comment leaves everything in limbo ::) ::))

Geoff

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Re: A thread to talk about Talk
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2012, 12:01:12 pm »
One of the things about Talk that I dislike is not knowing where the latest posts are - there is no "overview" of all the threads as there is in the Moon Zoo forum for instance. When I first log in to the Moon Zoo forum and the forum 'Home' is displayed, I can see immediately if there are new posts and the threads that contain them.

Talk is much less obvious and I've just spent a while poking around in the Planet Hunters Talk forum trying to find new posts.
  Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the prospect is staggering!- Arthur C. Clarke

JohnF

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Re: A thread to talk about Talk
« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2012, 12:18:01 pm »
I can't log into PH (Planet Hunters) here at work, as we only use IE.  But, from memory, isn't there an index of posts, with a date stamp, so doesn't that help in finding the latest posts?
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GStark

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Re: A thread to talk about Talk
« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2012, 03:15:35 am »
Aw Geez... Are we fixing the unbroken?

I am a relative newcomer to the Zoo but I am a Silverback in the HCI (Human Computer Interface) world.

The siren call of the new has lured many sites to ruin.

These comments have my hairs on end!

Be very very wary of replacing something which is so successful - for any reason.

GStark

JeanTate

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Re: A thread to talk about Talk
« Reply #5 on: May 26, 2012, 10:29:12 am »
Quote from: Fortson et al.
To aid in the development of the Zooniverse as a community of citizen scientists, and to enable users to engage in inquiry related to the data for a given Zoo, a discussion tool was recently developed to replace the forum structure used in GZ. The new discussion tool (called "Talk") was launched with the Milky Way Project and encourages users to create collections of objects, share information and join in online discussions. Several social media features such as tagging, tag clouds, "trending" and "recent" toggles improve Talk over the older forum structure, while retaining the primary collaborative functions such as the discussion boards in Galaxy Zoo. The Zooniverse team has already seen a marked increase in traffic to Talk compared to the number of users navigating to the old forum structure.

That's from Section 5 of "Galaxy Zoo: Morphological Classification and Citizen Science" (astro-ph 1104.5513).

I'd really like to understand this better; my own experience is that "social media features such as tagging, tag clouds, "trending" and "recent" toggles" do NOT "improve Talk over the older forum structure"!  :P But a much greater inconsistency, to me, is that Talk does NOT "retain[] the primary collaborative functions such as the discussion boards in Galaxy Zoo."

Is there any way we can find out why the Zooinverse team feels this way/came to this conclusion?  ???

Hanny

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Re: A thread to talk about Talk
« Reply #6 on: September 14, 2012, 12:56:45 pm »
Ah, here it is! I didn't want to say anything about it before I'd tried myself (even though I had heard of many Zooites hating it), but now I have tried it and I'd like to add my name to the list of people hating it. >:(

It's indeed mostly the same topics (true we have some duplicates here), with unanswered questions (logically, if not many people like it), but then All. Over. The. Place. At least we have some sort of structure here.. :-\

I have given up on it (for the moment) and I don't understand why something has fixed that wasn't broken. Can we pleeeeease have a forum for the seafloor project? Prettyplease? :'(

elizabeth

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Re: A thread to talk about Talk
« Reply #7 on: September 14, 2012, 07:51:15 pm »
Ah, here it is! I didn't want to say anything about it before I'd tried myself (even though I had heard of many Zooites hating it), but now I have tried it and I'd like to add my name to the list of people hating it. >:(

It's indeed mostly the same topics (true we have some duplicates here), with unanswered questions (logically, if not many people like it), but then All. Over. The. Place. At least we have some sort of structure here.. :-\

I have given up on it (for the moment) and I don't understand why something has fixed that wasn't broken. Can we pleeeeease have a forum for the seafloor project? Prettyplease? :'(
:D That would be nice.

ElisabethB

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Re: A thread to talk about Talk
« Reply #8 on: September 14, 2012, 08:12:07 pm »

I have given up on it (for the moment) and I don't understand why something has fixed that wasn't broken. Can we pleeeeease have a forum for the seafloor project? Prettyplease? :'(

and for Planet Hunters and SETI Live and Milky Way project and GZ 4 and ....
Please, !

Hanny

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Re: A thread to talk about Talk
« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2012, 08:21:38 pm »
Or maybe just boards on this forum for those projects? Or would that be too crowded here? How busy are the other forums? (I have to admit I'm hardly on the Moon Zoo forum for instance). What do we think? :)

JohnF

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Re: A thread to talk about Talk
« Reply #10 on: September 14, 2012, 08:34:20 pm »
Or maybe just boards on this forum for those projects? Or would that be too crowded here? How busy are the other forums? (I have to admit I'm hardly on the Moon Zoo forum for instance). What do we think? :)

Hanny, As a software engineer, who is employed in designing, testing and running websites, my view (similar to yours) would be to just use this Galaxy Zoo Forum (perhaps under another name), for the Boards/Blogs, as people are always creating new ones here (or put a block on that) and just use the Projects (Seafloor, Exoplanets, etc.) for classifying - in that way, you can bring about a sense of order.  As currently, you can create a Board/Blog here, while someone might be saying the same thing on the Project Blog.
John C. Fairweather - http://www.jcfwebsite.co.uk

elizabeth

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Re: A thread to talk about Talk
« Reply #11 on: September 14, 2012, 08:35:01 pm »
 :D I do like the fact that this forum was included in the new zoo.

Rick Nowell

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Re: A thread to talk about Talk
« Reply #12 on: September 14, 2012, 08:57:24 pm »
There is an idiom in English: "Shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted", meaning
"To try to prevent something that has already happened". GZ talk is not about to disappear,
so perhaps we can try and integrate GZ Forum with GZ Talk by having links to each readily
accessible. Maybe we could start a section here to discuss more fully subjects that come up
on GZ Talk?

http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/Shut+the+stable+door+after+the+horse+has+bolted

Hanny

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Re: A thread to talk about Talk
« Reply #13 on: September 15, 2012, 06:32:09 am »
:D I do like the fact that this forum was included in the new zoo.

Yep, it's very similar anyway :)


And Rick, agreed, I don't think Talk should go.. but I do think the forum is way better and if talk is the only option, I fear we'll lose people as they'll lose interest if nobody is answering their questions or if they can't find their questions back.

And besides a link to the home page of the forum and talk, I don't see how you can integrate them. They are very different.

Just my humble opinion by the way, not speaking as a mod or anything. ;)

JeanTate

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Re: A thread to talk about Talk
« Reply #14 on: September 15, 2012, 02:08:35 pm »
:D I do like the fact that this forum was included in the new zoo.

Yep, it's very similar anyway :)


And Rick, agreed, I don't think Talk should go.. but I do think the forum is way better and if talk is the only option, I fear we'll lose people as they'll lose interest if nobody is answering their questions or if they can't find their questions back.

And besides a link to the home page of the forum and talk, I don't see how you can integrate them. They are very different.

Just my humble opinion by the way, not speaking as a mod or anything. ;)
Well, for what it's worth, I've been classifying galaxies in the new zoo, and using Talk.

And I HATE it!  :(

You can't follow anything interesting (unless it has a unique hashtag), and there's a veritable flood of 'threads' that are one post comments ... almost all of which will remain just that, one post comments. I even found that there are two, totally different, 'threads' on the 'red arc' that was found early on, and apparently no way for anyone to merge the two (they are both generating a fair number of new comments ... each!).

Why oh why did the zookeepers ever think Talk was better?!?  ???  >:(