Author Topic: Friday, 21 February, 2014: Very Strange Spirals?  (Read 22241 times)

JeanTate

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Re: Friday, 21 February, 2014: Very Strange Spirals?
« Reply #75 on: June 18, 2014, 09:50:36 am »
Cool!  8)  ;D

You might like to try Aladin first, before trying to download and manipulate images on your own machine, using an image processing app. Among other things, Aladin lets you start with "SDSS9 colored" as your background (canvass). And it has various image processing tools like you'd find in GIMP (at least, the 'on your machine' version does), so you can learn how to do stuff in the one system. Also, if you're more comfortable in French than English, there's a French version.

@planetaryscience: neither of these are spirals, are they? Perhaps they'd be more at home in the Radio source thread?

JeanTate

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Re: Friday, 21 February, 2014: Very Strange Spirals?
« Reply #76 on: June 18, 2014, 06:09:44 pm »
(re SDSS J164924.01+263502.6)

I wonder if this what NGC3314 was referring to (upthread, p2)?

Yes, that's the one I knew about from their work. I missed the AAS abstract naming it.
Thanks!  :)

JeanTate

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Re: Friday, 21 February, 2014: Very Strange Spirals?
« Reply #77 on: June 18, 2014, 06:17:08 pm »
Copy of a post I wrote, in the RGZ Talk thread Hourglass sources associated with spiral galaxies:

Quote from: raynorris
These objects are incredibly rare in the local Universe (only 2 or 3 known) ...

I've been trying to track down these "2 or 3"; here's what I have found:

  • 0313-192 (Ledlow+ 1997, and Keel+ 2006)
  • NGC 5548 (Liu+ 2002? likely earlier, but I can't find any)
  • SDSS J084002.36+294902.6/FIRST J084000.8+294838 (Liu+ 2002? likely earlier, but I can't find any)
  • SDSS J140948.85-030232.5 (Hota+ 2011; Speca, "[it] could possibly be the second spiral-host large radio galaxy", presumably after 0313-192)
  • 3C 285 (I don't know)
  • ARG00004w0, per HAndernach
  • J2345-0449 (Bagchi+ 2014, after the OP was written)
  • SDSS J164924.01+263502.6 (Duffin+ 2014*, ditto)

I'm not sure if NGC 3079 (ARG0000b5m) should be included or not. By my criterion of "radio emission extends beyond the optical boundary" it would not ...

Rather more than two or three ... :(

*"During the course of this research, a second spiral galaxy that appears to be hosting a double-lobed radio source was identified" Hmm, that's at least the second second :D

JeanTate

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Re: Friday, 21 February, 2014: Very Strange Spirals?
« Reply #78 on: June 18, 2014, 06:22:42 pm »
And another one:

I'm going to take a bit of a break from creating composite images and trying to classify the candidates I've found in RGZ Talk so far*, so I can spend some time learning how to use Python to do analyses of the candidates (see this post for some background etc). I'll still be looking at new comments, and collecting possible candidates.

Here are some 'as of now' stats, which may be of interest:

  • 97 records in my file, one record per potential candidate (but see below!)
  • 9 are duplicates, independent discoveries, errors, etc
  • excluding the 9, 78 records were collected before I first posted my intentions in this thread, and ten since

Of the 78:

  • 8 are "excellent" (one has yet to be posted in the GZ forum thread)
  • 7 are "good"
  • 10 are "fair" (two have yet to be posted in the GZ forum thread)
  • 23 "poor"
  • 21 "else"
  • 9 "yet to be rated"

Most of these 9 "yet to be rated" are complicated, for one reason or another; most are likely to end up being either "poor" or "else".

More intensive searching could turn up another ~20 candidates, among comments posted before ~10 June. Very roughly, then, ~15 candidates per month.

Of the ten candidates I've noted since 10 June, I've rated just one (and posted it to the GZ forum thread), ARG00026v8. If the distribution is ~the same as among the 78, another 2 or 3 of these ten will be excellent/good/fair. The 'rate of discovery' is about the same, perhaps a tad higher.

How many excellent/good/fair might there be, among those no one has commented on yet? I cannot answer that, but maybe a scientist could ... How to factor in the 'zooite'? Here's the number of candidates by zooite, ignoring their 'hit rate' among candidates (and counting independent discoveries - two or more zooites independently find the same candidate - just once):

  • 24 WizardHowl
  • 20 antikodon
  • 16 zutopian
  • 7 JeanTate (surely biased! :O)
  • 3 firejuggler
  • 2 each: c_cld, Dolorous Edd, inforservador
  • 1 each: bartinhogoool, Brucea, Emmabray, jesse.rehm, mdwilber, Milkybear, planetaryscience, SG1966, sharqua, teamaynard, Ushiromiya Xyrius

Oh, and we need just a fifth (or even less?) of the 25 excellent/good/fair objects to turn out to be the real thing, in order to double the current known number of these systems. :O How cool is that?!? :D

*to be very clear: almost all these were discovered by zooites other than JeanTate

zutopian

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Re: Friday, 21 February, 2014: Very Strange Spirals?
« Reply #79 on: June 19, 2014, 06:30:40 am »
Copy of a post I wrote, in the RGZ Talk thread Hourglass sources associated with spiral galaxies:

Quote from: raynorris
These objects are incredibly rare in the local Universe (only 2 or 3 known) ...

I've been trying to track down these "2 or 3"; here's what I have found:

  • 0313-192 (Ledlow+ 1997, and Keel+ 2006)
  • NGC 5548 (Liu+ 2002? likely earlier, but I can't find any)
  • SDSS J084002.36+294902.6/FIRST J084000.8+294838 (Liu+ 2002? likely earlier, but I can't find any)
  • SDSS J140948.85-030232.5 (Hota+ 2011; Speca, "[it] could possibly be the second spiral-host large radio galaxy", presumably after 0313-192)
  • 3C 285 (I don't know)
  • ARG00004w0, per HAndernach
  • J2345-0449 (Bagchi+ 2014, after the OP was written)
  • SDSS J164924.01+263502.6 (Duffin+ 2014*, ditto)

I'm not sure if NGC 3079 (ARG0000b5m) should be included or not. By my criterion of "radio emission extends beyond the optical boundary" it would not ...

Rather more than two or three ... :(

*"During the course of this research, a second spiral galaxy that appears to be hosting a double-lobed radio source was identified" Hmm, that's at least the second second :D

Here is a further paper.: 

WISE J233237.05-505643.5: a Double-Peaked Broad-Lined AGN with Spiral-Shaped Radio Morphology
Quote
(...) Unlike most FR-II objects, W2332-5056 is hosted by a disk-like galaxy. (...)
Chao-Wei Tsai, Thomas H. Jarrett, Daniel Stern, Emonts Bjorn, R. Scott Barrows, Roberto J. Assef, Ray P. Norris, Peter R. M. Eisenhardt, Carol J. Lonsdale, Andrew W. Blain, Dominic J. Benford, Jingwen Wu, Brian Stalder, Christopher W. Stubbs, F. William High, K. L. Li, Albert K. H.Kong
(Submitted on 8 Oct 2013)
http://arxiv.org/abs/1310.2257

In this paper there are mentioned further cases, e.g. following ones.:
- disk-like galaxy PKS 1814-636 (Morganti et al. 2011)
- NGC 612 (Ekers et al. 1978). This one is also mentioned in the paper by Keel et al.
- and further ones
« Last Edit: June 19, 2014, 08:07:43 am by zutopian »

zutopian

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Re: Friday, 21 February, 2014: Very Strange Spirals?
« Reply #80 on: June 19, 2014, 03:24:12 pm »
NGC 5972 has shown up in Radio Zoo Talk.:
http://radiotalk.galaxyzoo.org/#/subjects/ARG0002jh9
Talk discussion:NGC 5972: Galaxy with known voorwerpje and known doublelobe
http://radiotalk.galaxyzoo.org/#/boards/BRG0000002/discussions/DRG00006oe

I did following post in Radio Zoo Talk.:


http://skyserver.sdss3.org/public/en/tools/explore/summary.aspx?id=1237665566615666691

It is NGC 5972, which has a known voorwerpje (ionized gas cloud). Ref.: GZ paper by Keel et al.. 
One of the other NED Refs is as follows.:.

Title:  The Hubble type of the double lobe radio galaxy NGC 5972
Quote
We found in the literature a single example of a spiral galaxy associated with a classical extended double lobe radio source: NGC 5972 classified as an S0-a by Lauberts (1982). We show that it is rather an E galaxy which may possibly be the result of a merger event. It has an emission line spectrum typical of a Seyfert 2 galaxy.
Authors: Veron, P.; Veron-Cetty, M.-P.   
Publication: Astronomy and Astrophysics, v.296, p.315 (A&A Homepage)   
Publication Date: 04/1995   
Origin: CDS; KNUDSEN   
Bibliographic Code: 1995A&A...296..315V   
http://adsabs.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/bib_query?1995A%26A...296..315V

The paper was cited in following paper.:
Title: An Unusual Radio Galaxy in Abell 428: A Large, Powerful FR I Source in a Disk-dominated Host
Authors: Ledlow, Michael J.; Owen, Frazer N.; Keel, William C.
Bibliographic Code: 1998ApJ...495..227L
http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/1998ApJ...495..227L

Here is the GZ blog post about the observation by the HST.:
Something rich and strange – Hubble eyes NGC 5972
Quote
(...)This is a galaxy with active nucleus, large double radio source, and the most extensive ionized gas we turned up in the Voorwerpje project. (...)
http://blog.galaxyzoo.org/2012/07/12/something-rich-and-strange-hubble-eyes-ngc-5972/
« Last Edit: June 19, 2014, 06:22:34 pm by zutopian »

zutopian

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Re: Friday, 21 February, 2014: Very Strange Spirals?
« Reply #81 on: June 19, 2014, 05:12:08 pm »
Referring to my previous post:

Curiously, NGC 5972 is classified just as S0/a* in NED! :

There are following 3 Refs for the morphology.:
- 1991RC3.9.C...0000d
- 1973UGC...C...0000N
- 1994AJ....107.1629T
http://ned.ipac.caltech.edu/cgi-bin/NEDatt?objname=NGC+5972

Curiously, the paper 1995A&A...296..315V isn't listed as Ref. for the morphology! As mentioned in previous post, according to the paper "The Hubble type of the double lobe radio galaxy NGC 5972" it is an elliptical ! Curiously, the paper by Lauberts (1982) is also not listed as Ref. for the morphology class in NED.

Title: The Hubble type of the double lobe radio galaxy NGC 5972
Quote
We found in the literature a single example of a spiral galaxy associated with a classical extended double lobe radio source: NGC 5972 classified as an S0-a by Lauberts (1982). We show that it is rather an E galaxy which may possibly be the result of a merger event. It has an emission line spectrum typical of a Seyfert 2 galaxy.
Authors: Veron, P.; Veron-Cetty, M.-P.   
Publication: Astronomy and Astrophysics, v.296, p.315 (A&A Homepage)   
Publication Date: 04/1995   
Origin: CDS; KNUDSEN   
Bibliographic Code: 1995A&A...296..315V   
http://adsabs.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/bib_query?1995A%26A...296..315V

* Lenticular/Spiral transition type, Hubble stage between S0 and Sa.

« Last Edit: June 19, 2014, 05:14:24 pm by zutopian »

zutopian

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Re: Friday, 21 February, 2014: Very Strange Spirals?
« Reply #82 on: June 19, 2014, 05:58:18 pm »
Referring to my previous post:

Curiously, NGC 5972 is classified just as S0/a* in NED! :
(...)

In the GZ voorwerpje paper the morphology of NGC 5972 is given as follows.: 

Quote
Table 9: Morphologies of AGN hosts with extended clouds:
SDSS designation                     z    Sy type Name     rmax, kpc      Morphology                 cone angle disc/cloud angle Sides
(...)
SDSS J153854.16+170134.2 0.0297 2       NGC 5972        33         Warped disc and tails   35 18 2
 (...)
http://arxiv.org/abs/1110.6921
« Last Edit: June 19, 2014, 06:16:58 pm by zutopian »

zutopian

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Re: Friday, 21 February, 2014: Very Strange Spirals?
« Reply #83 on: June 20, 2014, 10:07:12 am »
Concerning NGC 5972 :

Jean did following new post in Radio Zoo Talk *:
Quote
Very cool, zutopian! :D

A nearby object which may connect EELRs (a.k.a. voorwerpjes) with radio lobes/jets with disk galaxies, and merger activity and a quenching of star-formation, all in one object ... how cool would that be?!? Not to mention that zooites played an important role ...

I did following reply.:

Well, it is unclear to me, if is an elliptical or a disc galaxy.: In the Veron et al.paper it is stated, that it is actually an elliptical, but in the voorwerpje paper it is classified however as a disc. I wonder, if the HST observation, which was done later, is useful to clarify the morphology? When will the paper about the voorwerpje observations by the HST be available?

In the GZ forum Mr Keel had written in the introduction of the topic "Hubble and Voorwerpjes"** following.:
Quote
NGC 5972 attracted some interest as possibly being a spiral with a giant double-lobed radio source, which would be quite rare. In a study published in 1995, Phillippe Veron and Mira Veron-Cetty showed that the "spiral arms" are filaments of gas ionized by the central AGN, whose motions are mostly smooth rotation about the core.

After the observation by the HST, c_cld did following comment.:
Quote
May be you could already confirm the tentative conclusion of this 1995 paper:
 "The analysis of the images of NGC 5972 shows that it is an E galaxy rather than an SO-a; this galaxy however shows some structures which are not identifiable with spiral arms but could perhaps be the result of a merger event."

Would NGC 5972 be a polar ring candidate?

Mr Keel replied as follows.:
Quote
I think we entirely support the idea that NGC 5972 has undergone a merger - we see tidal streams, and the dust and gas are in multiple planes and twisted. It might end up as a polar ring, if we are really patient.

So in addition "Polar ring galaxy formation", which is also interesting ! :)

*   http://radiotalk.galaxyzoo.org/#/boards/BRG0000002/discussions/DRG00006oe
** http://www.galaxyzooforum.org/index.php?topic=279219.msg610041#msg610041
« Last Edit: June 20, 2014, 10:09:58 am by zutopian »

zutopian

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Re: Friday, 21 February, 2014: Very Strange Spirals?
« Reply #84 on: June 20, 2014, 10:37:07 am »
Jean did following post in Radio Zoo Talk today.: 
Quote
There's a paper just out which may help us a lot: A Catalogue of Two-Dimensional Photometric Decompositions in the SDSS-DR7 Spectroscopic Main Galaxy Sample: Preferred Models and Systematics, Meert+ 2014:
(...)
By getting the results of these 2D model fits, for candidate hosts in SDSS DR7, we would (will) have a more objective basis for classifying the host's optical morphology, and hopefully enough data to formulate hypotheses concerning late-type vs early-type, signs of merger/interaction, and may even be able to extrapolate to better classifications of more distant/fainter candidate hosts.

And when raynorris returns, he can tells us how any of this relates to PRONGS! :)
http://radiotalk.galaxyzoo.org/#/boards/BRG0000003/discussions/DRG00000rz

She had informed about this paper also in a new GZ forum topic, which she had started.: 
"A Catalogue of Two-Dimensional Photometric Decompositions in the SDSS-DR7 ..."
http://www.galaxyzooforum.org/index.php?topic=281916.0

I am not sure, if the catalog helps to distinguish between elliptical and disc galaxy.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2014, 01:51:55 pm by zutopian »

zutopian

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Re: Friday, 21 February, 2014: Very Strange Spirals?
« Reply #85 on: June 23, 2014, 03:41:43 pm »
CHANG-ES III: UGC10288 -- An Edge-on Galaxy with a Background Double-lobed Radio Source
Quote
A surprising new result is the presence of a strong, polarized, double-lobed extragalactic radio source ({\it CHANG-ES A}) almost immediately behind the galaxy and perpendicular to its disk.
Judith Irwin, Marita Krause, Jayanne English, Rainer Beck, Eric Murphy, Theresa Wiegert, George Heald, Rene Walterbos, Richard J. Rand, Troy Porter
(Submitted on 14 Nov 2013)
http://arxiv.org/abs/1311.3894

JeanTate

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Re: Friday, 21 February, 2014: Very Strange Spirals?
« Reply #86 on: June 28, 2014, 10:36:49 pm »

Quote
This was one found by antikodon that I remembered HAndernach commented on: http://radiotalk.galaxyzoo.org/#/subjects/ARG00036hs

If you click the link, you'll see that zooite antikodon wrote, on January 27 2014 2:11 PM, "#overedge #doublelobe host (?)"; HAndernach (SCIENTIST) replied, at 8:49 PM the same day, "SDSS J132435.81+084635.5= ASK 482820.0, an IR- and HI emitting spiral with an FRII morphology, EXTREMELY RARE, should be followed up!"

Here is SDSS J132435.81+084635.5 (DR10), a galaxy whose morphology is classified as "Spiral" in GZ1, and whose spectroscopic redshift is 0.044:



And here is a FIRST image, centered on the brighter lobe (the spiral is about midway between the two faint, extended sources):



Sorry, there are no radio source at the left of the spiral opposite to the radio lobe of ARG00036hs. I see only noise.

You could check by a FIRST Catalog Search on the position of the spiral 1237671956441596126 at coords 13:24:35.81, +08:46:35.57  with a radius of 4.5 arcmin.

Search Results

Searching for first_cat sources within 270.000 arcsec of
13 24 35.810 +08 46 35.57 (J2000)

Map RMS at search position is 0.149 mJy/beam
Catalog detection limit (including CLEAN bias) at source position is 1.00 mJy/beam

3 sources found within 270.000 arcsec

                                                                                    FIRST Catalog Database (2013jun05)                                                                                   
-------------+-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Do  Get Get  | Search     RA (2000)   Dec (2000)   Side   Peak     Int.     RMS   Deconv.  Deconv.  Deconv  Meas.     Meas.      Meas.    Field Name   SDSS Closest SDSS  SD 2MAS Closest 2MASS  Mean      Mean      RMS   
NED Opt FRST | Distance                            lobe   Flux     Flux    (mJy/   MajAx    MinAx   PosAng  MajAx     MinAx     PosAng                 Mtch  SDSS    i    Cl Mtch 2MASS    K     Epoch    Epoch     Epoch   
SrchImg Img  | (arcsec)                            Prob  (mJy/bm)  (mJy)   beam)  (arcsec) (arcsec) (deg)  (arcsec)  (arcsec)  (degrees)               <8"  Sep(")  (mag)    <8"  Sep(")  (mag) (year)    (MJD)     (MJD)   
-------------+-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
NED OPT FIMG |    68.5  13 24 31.345 +08 46 53.22 0.016     1.92    17.35  0.147    16.47    14.22   71.7     17.33     15.21       71.7 13240+08421I    0   99.00 99.00  -    0   99.00 99.00 2000.062 2451567.0     0.410
NED OPT FIMG |    84.1  13 24 30.273 +08 46 54.03 0.014     2.19     7.19  0.146     9.23     7.16   76.6     10.69      8.97       76.6 13240+08421I    0   99.00 99.00  -    0   99.00 99.00 2000.062 2451567.0     0.413
NED OPT FIMG |   203.9  13 24 32.185 +08 49 52.22 0.014    10.45    11.58  0.152     2.57     0.16   59.1      5.98      5.40       59.1 13240+08421I    3    0.16 15.70  g    1    0.12 13.95 2000.061 2451566.9     0.586
-------------+-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Redo this search for having images on clicking the links provided in the results.

To me, Object FIRSTJ132430.2+084654 looks like a hourglass without optical counterpart  :(

Here's a composite FIRST + SDSS image; note that the E lobe (on the left) is pretty faint, but seems to be above the general noise (scale is 0.36"/pix):



And here's a triple composite, NVSS (in cyan) + FIRST (red) + SDSS (same scale):



The resolution of NVSS is much lower than even WISE; in fact, the whole image is only a few 'resolution-elements' wide!  :P Nevertheless, it seems that the E lobe is quite real.  8) Maybe I should produce an even more zoomed-out composite image ...

Sadly, I think a more quantitative analysis suggests the host of the nice doublelobes is some invisible (in the SDSS image) far-in-the-background galaxy!  :'(

Consider this:



FIRST contours are in red (threshold 3 sigma, scaling sqrt(2); little smoothing), and NVSS in cyan (threshold 3 sigma, scaling sqrt(2); heavy smoothing). To me, the nucleus of the nice z_sp = 0.044 spiral is not at the center. More details on page 2 of the RGZ Talk thread How to decide the 'zero point' for radio contours?