Author Topic: Lucky Bruno and his Violin Clef  (Read 4515 times)

EigenState

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Re: Lucky Bruno and his Violin Clef
« Reply #15 on: May 12, 2014, 12:57:50 am »
Greetings,

"(…) I am an ordinary zooite (…)."  In that case, the average knowledge base of the zoo visitors here is far  broader than that of the average citizen.  Maybe I should be captured and thrown into one of the cages so I can try and learn something from the nonhuman animals???!!!

Cut the sophomoric drama.  Almost everyone came here--be it the forum or the research projects--as a layman with little knowledge of astronomy and astrophysics.  The difference is that those thousands upon thousands of volunteers never articulated a personal need to become famous via some discovery.  Nor did they launch their participation here at the forum by bemoaning the low probability that they would make a discovery.  Instead, they dug in and classified galaxies--for hours and hours and hours, thousands of galaxies--and they did what was necessary to accumulate the knowledge they needed and that they desired to have.

The result?  They did learn, and a great deal at that.  And a substantive number of papers have been published within the peer-reviewed scientific literature thanks to the efforts of a host of nameless volunteers who have asked for nothing but the opportunity to contribute.

"Does that mean (…) you made little effort to (…)?"  I decided to trust the discernment of the owner of the S-F site, who says:  "T. Van Flandern, editor of the MetaResearch Bulletin, has compiled a list of Big-Bang problems, and it is not a short list. Can the Big-Bang paradigm be that shaky? Like evolution and relativity, the Big Bang is usually paraded as a proven, undeniable fact. It isn't."  His title for that subject (1998): "Ten Strikes Against the Big Bang".

Clearly, you failed to do your homework and accepted intellectual rubbish posted on the internet.

Indeed, no theory is ever proven.  Yet the objective evidence consistent with inflationary Big Bang cosmology is readily available.  That body of evidence is both comprehensive and compelling.  Neither of those statements can be made regarding the ideas of Van Flandern.

As but one example, consider Van Flandern's assertion that "the microwave "background" makes more sense as the limiting temperature of space heated by starlight than as the remnant of a fireball".   Did you ever pause to pose the following obvious questions to yourself:

How does that hypothesis explain that the cosmic microwave background (CMB) constitutes an almost perfect blackbody radiator?

How does that hypothesis explain that the temperature of that blackbody radiator is 2.7 K?

How does that hypothesis explain the existence of anisotropies in the CMB temperature distribution?

How does that hypothesis explain the power spectrum of the CMB anisotropies?

There are others, but that should suffice to illustrate the point that you failed miserably to scrutinize the naive assertions presented by Van Flandern.  I will not even bother to point out that the Big Bang was not a "fireball".

In the ultimate analysis, you appear to have come to this forum to learn what this forum and the associated research projects can do for you.  Wrong question!  Instead ask how you can contribute, and how you can learn.

Best regards,
ES

JeanTate

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Re: Lucky Bruno and his Violin Clef
« Reply #16 on: May 12, 2014, 09:33:43 pm »
"(…) I am an ordinary zooite (…)."  In that case, the average knowledge base of the zoo visitors here is far  broader than that of the average citizen.  [...]

I really don't see how that could possibly follow ... by being "an ordinary zooite" I was referring to the fact that I do not work at a university or research institute, nor do I have a PhD. Perhaps, though, I should have said that I am not a member of any Zooniverse Science (or Development) Team, nor have I ever been. Further, I do not have the designation "Astronomer".

I thought it obvious that "ordinary zooites" would have a wide range of skills, experiences, formal training, ... indeed, by their own admission we have ordinary zooites who are mathematicians (one the Planet Hunters zooites, for example), skilled in various aspects of IT (waveney, for example), very keen amateur astronomers, and so on. From reading what just one ordinary zooite wrote, how can you make robust conclusions about "the average knowledge base of the zoo visitors here"?

Quote
"Does that mean (…) you made little effort to (…)?"  I decided to trust the discernment of the owner of the S-F site, who says:  "T. Van Flandern, editor of the MetaResearch Bulletin, has compiled a list of Big-Bang problems, and it is not a short list. Can the Big-Bang paradigm be that shaky? Like evolution and relativity, the Big Bang is usually paraded as a proven, undeniable fact. It isn't."  His title for that subject (1998): "Ten Strikes Against the Big Bang".  [...]

Thanks for that.

For me, that raises this question: "why would you trust the owner of an S-F site, to give you an accurate understanding of the scientific status of LCDM cosmological models?" (to give "the Big Bang" a more suitable description) But I see that perhaps the disconnect is deeper ... "usually paraded as a proven, undeniable fact" points to an all-too-common, but nonetheless faulty, understanding of the nature of science (in general, as EigenState has pointed out). From my point of view, it's a real shame that so many people who are otherwise keen on science do not see how unhelpful phrases like this are.

Back to classifying galaxies; have you seen zooite Bloody_Angel's fantastic collection of great objects? It's in GZ Talk, in the thread Here's all the great stuff I find :D Happy hunting!  :)

daniel rey m.

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Re: Lucky Bruno and his Violin Clef
« Reply #17 on: May 15, 2014, 12:48:34 am »
"(…) why would you trust the owner of an S-F site (…)?"  A sci-fi site???  No.  I abbreviated the name of the Science-Frontiers.com website, which I had already mentioned.  The owner was physicist Wm. R. Corliss (died in 2011, but the website is still there).  Incidentally, how about "making a name for myself" in the sci-fi field, or in the supernatural field, rather than in the natural sciences.  It sounds promising.  Again, thank you for taking the trouble to point out useful discussions.

"Did you ever pause to (…)?" A surplus question because, obviously, no pause.  Relying on an astronomer's and a physicist's word was judged to be adequate enough.

"Instead ask how you can contribute (…)."  Yes, that elementary lesson: "Ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for etc."-KFC
 
It's surprising how people here are willing to go into long explanations, again and again.  Sternness is counterproductive, though.  Not at all good, in the long run.  Read Maria Montessori.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2014, 01:25:32 am by daniel rey m. »

EigenState

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Re: Lucky Bruno and his Violin Clef
« Reply #18 on: May 15, 2014, 02:11:12 am »
Greetings,

Incidentally, how about "making a name for myself" in the sci-fi field, or in the supernatural field, rather than in the natural sciences.

Who cares?

"Did you ever pause to (…)?" A surplus question because, obviously, no pause.  Relying on an astronomer's and a physicist's word was judged to be adequate enough.

Judged to have been adequate, but was in fact very far from adequate.

"Instead ask how you can contribute (…)."  Yes, that elementary lesson: "Ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for etc."-KFC

For heavens sake, get the attribution correct!  You make it appear that it was Kentucky Fried Chicken.
 
It's surprising how people here are willing to go into long explanations, again and again.  Sternness is counterproductive, though.  Not at all good, in the long run.  Read Maria Montessori.

You find these responses to be stern?  This forum and its associated research projects are dedicated to astronomy and physics.  You have no idea of what intellectual criteria are applicable.  And again, I ask formally, what have you done to contribute positively to either this forum or to the research efforts?

Try earning the right to be critical before contaminating the local environment with your personal aspirations and imbecilic alternative theories.

Best regards,
ES

planetaryscience

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Re: Lucky Bruno and his Violin Clef
« Reply #19 on: May 15, 2014, 02:31:37 am »
I've been watching, letting this play out, but I think it's time to say - give it up, adding carefully-worded replies to DRM. He is obviously not looking to join into the group, but rather to get a point of his out and exaggerating the responses, sourcing obscure sites to prove a point he is trying to make.
I like to find asteroids and galaxy mergers- but all galaxies are still fine to me.

EigenState

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Re: Lucky Bruno and his Violin Clef
« Reply #20 on: May 15, 2014, 02:35:41 am »
Greetings,

I've been watching, letting this play out, but I think it's time to say - give it up, adding carefully-worded replies to DRM. He is obviously not looking to join into the group, but rather to get a point of his out and exaggerating the responses, sourcing obscure sites to prove a point he is trying to make.

Good insight.  I think I shall follow your sage advice.

Best regards,
ES