Author Topic: Give peas a chance!  (Read 69610 times)

FermatsBrother

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Re: Give peas a chance!
« Reply #825 on: March 05, 2008, 11:07:15 am »
In the posting by Nightwatch "What is this green colored thingy" that started this all off http://www.galaxyzooforum.org/index.php?topic=8926.msg88388 Zookeeper Kevin says much the same thing as Fermats Brother.
The fact that the image is green comes from the fact that the powerful [OIII] line sits in the r-band (which is the green in RGB).

This makes no sense to my tired brain, as I thought red would be the opposite colour to how it should be. Very interesting.
Why do galaxies with such strong emissions appear red, when, say, a W-R galaxy is usually bright blue. Confused....Our sun
is orange-red, yet this does not have the enormous emission lines. I think I am barking up the wrong tree. It seems very
contradictory.

Hi Rick Nowell link - It might be useful for zookeeperKevin to comment on my postings (any moderators listening ?).

"the r-band (which is the green in RGB)" is incorrect. The r' filter is centered on 6230 Å, which is red in the visible spectrum (see posting 821).

To recap, the  "powerful [OIII] line"  "sits in the r-band" only when the z shift >0.1 and <0.4 (approx).

"as I thought red would be the opposite colour to how it should be". This is what you thought they should be !
But I guess that the astrophysisists wanted more information in their screen images and decided to "stretch" the normal visible colour range into the IR.

"Our sun is orange-red". To most people our Sun appears white !
"galaxies with such strong emissions appear red". Most galaxies are "white" (generalising) as they are made up of billions of stars like our sun.
They are basically black-body radiators, emitting a continuous spectrum (the peak and shape in the spectrum depending on the surface temperature).
If galaxies are orange or red, it's due to the "red shift" (z) resulting from their distance from us. The Sun would appear a different colour if it's temperature was different, or if it's z was different from 0.
Objects with associated emission lines (on top of a continuous spectrum) are surrounded by gas.
The gas is absorbing radiation (often UV or X-rays) and re-emitting at very specific wavelengths due to transitions between various electronic bands in energised atoms.
An appropriate example here is OIII, which is an oxygen atom with two electrons removed, emitting at exactly 5007Å (z = 0).

"Our sun does not have the enormous emission lines". It does have a multiplicity of absorption lines called Frauenhofer lines. This is where atom are absorbing energy from the Suns radiation in the photosphere. If they absorb, I guess that they must also emit.
See Suns Spectrum.
Hope that clarifies a few points,
Fermats Brother

 


« Last Edit: March 05, 2008, 11:50:00 am by FermatsBrother »
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Rick Nowell

Re: Give peas a chance!
« Reply #826 on: March 05, 2008, 11:39:54 am »
So the greater majority of galaxies are white, as they are emitting a broad spectrum. This broad spectrum
combines to give white light. Some galaxies emit more light at particular frequencies, depending on distance,
physics, age, but they are still mainly white in appearance if you are next to them.

So to say that a pea galaxy is green is wrong- I think we all thought it was. However, because of the physics
and distances, those particular [OIII] galaxies appear green, whereas others at different distances (ages)
appear different colours. So the question has nothing to do with colour really, but only to do with how come
there is such intense [OIII] activity. Dividing them into colours is really to do with distance and nothing else,
given that a galaxy with a similar spectrum has various colours due to distance.

Why are there blue ellipticals then- this is to do with age and population rather than colour? What one is
really asking is why are there ellipticals that are star forming, when ellipticals are thought to be, generally,
older than spirals.

So colour definition is purely arbitary: it is the spectrum that matters- although this is shifted due to distance.
When I categorise green galaxies, I am really categorising them by distance.

You dare to say a Zookeeper is wrong? Funny how you can never find them when you want them...

starry nite

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Re: Give peas a chance!
« Reply #827 on: March 05, 2008, 01:26:23 pm »
Posted by jacekm_pl in the QSO thread.

ra=164.38095113, dec=6.83477462, ObjId = 587732702330814598
http://cas.sdss.org/astro/en/tools/explore/obj.asp?id=587732702330814598
Good news everyone!

Galaxy Hunters Inc

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Re: Give peas a chance!
« Reply #828 on: March 05, 2008, 01:45:19 pm »
HI Guys
Just popped out in the space cruiser, had a look around, and found these funny wanna be peas kicking around just outside the air lock.
What do you think?
 

This one was Previously posted in Analysis Tips
Re: Blue elliptical? by fluffyporcupine
ObjId = 588015510363373739





Best candidate of todays motley collection of peas.
ObjId = 588015510363373762
new


ObjId = 587731514228343103
new




ObjId = 587731513691406457
Charts sort of wrong, or just me sorta wrong? and the base is way to high.
new




Walks like a pea, Talks like a pea, But it sure doesn't sing like a pea. Is this Just OIII shifted to the left because of the redshift?
new
ObjId = 588015509825978604


ObjId = 587731513154207938
new

« Last Edit: March 06, 2008, 02:02:13 pm by Galaxy Hunters Inc »

Galaxy Hunters Inc

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Re: Give peas a chance!
« Reply #829 on: March 05, 2008, 01:50:28 pm »
Hi Starry
I thought jacekm_pl may have moved it over himself. Never mind.
I'm still looking for that edge on pea but so far no luck. LOL

FermatsBrother

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Re: Give peas a chance!
« Reply #830 on: March 05, 2008, 01:55:26 pm »

ObjId = 587731513691406457
Charts sort of wrong, or just me sorta wrong? and the base is way to high.

Walks like a pea, Talks like a pea, But it sure doesn't sing like a pea. Is this Just OIII shifted to the left because of the redshift?

Hi Galaxy Hunters Inc - "Is this Just OIII shifted to the left because of the redshift?" Yes, exactly (but to the right) !!
This is a good example of what I mean with large z (= 0.67). Notice that the computer has it classified as a QSO.
The OIII is at 8360Å, registering mainly in the near-IR filter (60%) with some in the IR (40%).
Any "blueness" comes from the high baseline spectrum. The area of OIII peak is quite low and will not appreciably alter the colour in the screen picture.
But it's still a "pea" on Starry's classification.
We still need a "red pea" with a v. low background spectrum. Which would be nice !
Fermats Brother
« Last Edit: March 05, 2008, 07:55:22 pm by FermatsBrother »
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FermatsBrother

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Re: Give peas a chance!
« Reply #831 on: March 05, 2008, 02:17:46 pm »
ObjId = 588015509825978604


Hi Galaxy Hunters Inc - This object is "yellow" because of the large area Hydrogen alpha peak at 6300Å (red filter, put onto screen as green) and the area under the curve in the near IR (i' filter, put onto screen as red) which when mixed give yellow !
It's not a "pea" as you can't get the 5007Å OIII lines which are down in the far-IR !
BTW, it's easier to quote you, if you post your objects individually.
Fermats Brother
« Last Edit: March 05, 2008, 02:22:04 pm by FermatsBrother »
A spectrum, many spectra. A Supernova, many supernovae. A datum, many data. A nebula, many nebulae. SATELLITE.
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starry nite

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Re: Give peas a chance!
« Reply #832 on: March 05, 2008, 03:43:51 pm »
Quote
We still need a "red pea" with a v. low background spectrum.

What about this one?: http://cas.sdss.org/astro/en/tools/explore/obj.asp?id=587736585507766663

The second green thing looks to be correctly tagged and redshift-measured. It's a narrow Lyman-alpha peak, but it lacks the typical secondary spike blueward that would get tagged OIII also. That seems to be a common trait, especially at the redshift where OIII's show as green or yellow-green on SDSS. Also, the peak is uneven while OIII peaks seem symmetrical if they have broad bases.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2008, 03:50:29 pm by starry nite »
Good news everyone!


FermatsBrother

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Re: Give peas a chance!
« Reply #834 on: March 05, 2008, 07:26:27 pm »
Quote
We still need a "red pea" with a v. low background spectrum.

What about this one?: http://cas.sdss.org/astro/en/tools/explore/obj.asp?id=587736585507766663

Hi Starry - It is a little beauty ! I see that the computer has classified it as a QSO.
With OIII at 8150Å (z = 0.628), it would certainly be registered in both the near-IR and the far-IR cameras.
The magnitudes registered by the different colour cameras at the time of the photo (see DR6 Explorer table of this Obj) are
u' = 22.57, g' = 21.96, r' = 21.15, i' = 20.13 and z' = 20.57.
This confirms that the object is quite dim (not suprising, considering how far away it is !), with the near-IR (i') the most intense (at 20.13) by quite a lot (r-i = 1.02, g-i = 1.83) as confirmed by the spectrum. As there is some light in g' & r', you would expect the image to be red tinted, as indeed it is.
If it was a bit closer, it would be one of your "green peas".

If you are lucky enough to have a video card which can be software manipulated, you can switch the different colours off to see how the object looks with red, green or blue removed. It can be quite interesting. (Remind me get a life  :-\!!)
The far-IR picture might be interesting; why not pull it down an look at it ?
Fermats Brother
« Last Edit: March 05, 2008, 08:11:47 pm by FermatsBrother »
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FermatsBrother

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Re: Give peas a chance!
« Reply #835 on: March 05, 2008, 08:23:43 pm »
Didn't know where to put this, it might be a pea, it might be an exclamation mark, or an inverted "i", so it's here.
Fermats Brother
http://cas.sdss.org/astro/en/tools/explore/obj.asp?id=588017726544281808
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ElisabethB

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Re: Give peas a chance!
« Reply #836 on: March 05, 2008, 09:23:30 pm »

ElisabethB

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Re: Give peas a chance!
« Reply #837 on: March 05, 2008, 09:51:58 pm »

FermatsBrother

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Re: Give peas a chance!
« Reply #838 on: March 05, 2008, 11:05:23 pm »
Just to note concerning actual colours v. screen colours, here is a statement from Kevin in Voorwerp mystery confirming the statements in my earlier post :
"We got three images in filters very similar to the SDSS ones. We got a g, r and i-band image. Those correspond roughly to green, red and infra-red for human eyes. Just to make things confusing though, we colour g in blue, r in green and i in red to stay consistent with the SDSS/GZ images."
Fermats Brother
« Last Edit: March 06, 2008, 01:31:51 pm by FermatsBrother »
A spectrum, many spectra. A Supernova, many supernovae. A datum, many data. A nebula, many nebulae. SATELLITE.
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starry nite

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Re: Give peas a chance!
« Reply #839 on: March 06, 2008, 09:26:09 am »
Elevated baseline for this plain brown bean.

ra=205.71406412, dec=12.8025643, ObjId = 588017705088974940
http://cas.sdss.org/dr6/en/tools/explore/obj.asp?id=588017705088974940
Good news everyone!